I’ve been shooting a 6mmAR for years now in a quality brand name 1-8″ twist 4 groove barrel that I profiled and chambered with a PT&G 6mmAR reamer. Look already done this take 108 Molly Gr for the Grendel and your 108 6mm Arc you’ll see the same or Grendel a bit better Same FP/s 2750 -2790 for Grendel, So now it down to ft-lbf, betting Grendel wins at 1000. Also, the 6mm ARC will have 393 ft/lbs of energy at this distance vs only 224 ft/lbs for the 6.8 SPC – that’s almost twice as much energy for the 6mm ARC. His work on modifying brass was a continual headache. After learning about the joint project between Hornady, Barrett Firearms, Proof Research, Geissele, Nightforce, and OSS Suppressors to provide Barrett Rec-7s chambered in 6mm ARC to a Department of Defense customer, we started talking about the details of the 6mm ARC cartridge. Many others double group, that is there are three in a group and 2 in a group a bit away. 2) I use E-Lander magazines for the 6.5G exclusively. 6.5 Grendel • The 6mm ARC delivers comparable performance from a wider assortment of bullets, making it a more versatile choice. So I do think of it as a 6mm Grendel. Here’s a breakdown of the commercially-available ARC 6mm line from Hornady. The twist should be 1/7.5 for the best accuracy and bullet stability. Likewise, the first cartridge to offer something unique can sometimes fade away when a better marketed/standardized approach later arrives. If I had jumped when Remington released the 260 Remington in 1997, I’d be stuck with rifles for which I can find ammo, but not NEAR as widespread as I can find 6.5 Creedmoor. 6mm Advanced Rifle Cartridge Background. Whether you're making bulk ammo for plinking, creating the perfect hunting round, or building the best ammunition for a 500 yard shot, Midsouth has the right Rifle Bullet for your Reloading recipe. I’m sure I would love one of these as well, but as they say experts talk logistics and the logistics of the Grendel are a bit more compelling for now. This is similar to the 9mm Dillon that came out in the late 80s for IPSC shooting. And if you want to see Robert’s 6mmAR Black Rifle that can shoot at 100-10X, click here: https://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek068.html. No. Instead, they took the torch, standardized (and modernized) the dimensions, and brought it to market with accessories and load data that allowed it to be easily adopted by the industry. to fit into an AR platform. The .123 caliber bullet would be another draw for the .145 caliber jacket. TECH SPECS: CALIBER: 6mm ARC BARREL: 16.1″, 1:7.5 twist, 6mm ARC, MT, 416SS, SBN MUZZLE: SV Brake, threaded 5/8-24 GAS PORT LOCATION: Rifle Length with SLR Adjustable Gas Block RECEIVER: Forged 7075-T6 AL M4 type … True Hornady is a huge ammunition and component manufacturer but I’m seeing No reason at all why the military would choose this round over the 6.5 grendel or other rounds out there mates to the M4 family of rifles. Why don’t the mainstream barrel manufacturers offer extended gas systems and tighter twist for these longer heavy bullets? Produce your own ammo that meets your exact needs with die sets from Hornady. That’s close enough that I don’t doubt that this is anything other than Hornady standardizing the wildcat with just enough tweaks to claim they “developed” the round so they could trademark it for themselves. Unfortunately, the .224 Valkyrie doesn’t preform well with MOA! They’ll first be coming out with a cartridge in their “match” line with a 108 grain ELD-Match bullet for excellent long range performance and another loading with a 105 grain boat-tailed hollow point bullet in their “black” line. What kind of mags did the DOD customer get? “However, just outside of Huntsville is the rest of Alabama.”…..LOFL….As a former “damn yankee” pilot for the AL DoT, I wish I could insert a mic drop meme for that one! The Grendel to me is the best hunting choice and can step up to class 3 game better. Once you’ve got a barrel chambered in 6mm ARC, a bolt is all you need to complete your conversion of your AR from its current caliber to 6 ARC. No idea. Springfield Armory Hellcat Review [2020]: Is It Worth It? Note for Rifle reloaders: We recommend the addition of the Long Charging Die (cartridges from 223 Rem to 300 Win Mag) or the Short Charging Die (cartridges from 22 Hornet to 223 Rem) if charging rifle calibers. the heavies, the best…that’s what is was designed for high BC long range bullets…might as well use a .223 if your shooting Iight 55 to 68 grain bullets as they have poor BC for short range or short range varminting. Could you tell me what nightforce scope was used in the 6 ARC test with the Barrett REC. Who knows, one day you might want to jump up into the 90 -110gr bullet weights where this cartridge really shines and with heavy bullets the 1:10″ twist rate won’t work well for you. However, the 6mm ARC is much more effective for the job in my experience. So, considering brass your best option is to grab a few boxes of Hornady ammo. of energy. Required fields are marked *. What are your thoughts on this vs. 224 Valkyrie? Thank you again and I am waiting for a part two of your great Long Range Shooting Handbook! The Proof barrel shoots 55 grain to 115 grain accurately. The Bulldozer will have more energy at 1000yds than the 108 ELDM has at 850 yds under standard conditions and weighs 8% less allowing a significantly higher MV. Have fun! The average IQ here is off the map. Reloaders know how important high-quality brass is to the overall performance of your ammunition. Be the first to rate this post. It’s not something I plan to address as this round is not intended as a subsonic. Within a couple of minutes, I asked “So, effectively a modernized 6.5 Grendel?” Yes, I oversimplified it. Though they’re all excellent all-around cartridges, each is designed with a specific use in mind: Reloaders know how important high-quality brass is to the overall performance of your ammunition. Folks, go back and compare the ballistics to the 6.8 SPC using the 110gr V Ma bullet with a 24″ barrel like this data. You don’t have to wait for the Barretts to become available to get one. How about you put a 123gr in the ARC and we compare that to the 107gr 65 Grendel….can you guess the results? Best accuracy rifle +1″ with a 1-7.5 twist Proof Research stainless barrel, all barrels are 18″ and 1 inaccurate 1-7 twist BA barrel for fire forming. my comment was aimed at the semantics not the cartridge. There will be no one answer for what 223 or 6.5 Grendel will do without knowing barrel length/velocity of a given system and the particular bullet. A 6×45 or similar on a 223 case can do that pretty much. I’m glad I didn’t get around to building a 224 Valk/24 Nosler “wildcat” and will now just get a 6 ARC. I’m referring to being on target and shooting an actual group at each distance). Has anyone tried the PRI mags? If you know me, you know I’m usually suspicious of new cartridges. Rechambering 1-10 twist barrel is a waste of time. Here’s a breakdown of the bullet selection. Sorry, but if you think the difference between 260 Rem and 6.5CM is equivalent to “rounding differences”, then you don’t grasp the important design improvements made to CM to propel its capabilities well above 260 in long-range use. Thanks for the informative article, did you see any photos of rounds shot into ballistic gel or other actual performance vs different mediums? I had dreamed of a 6mm Grendel but, without mainstream support like this, I chose the 6.5 Grendel. By the end of my testing over a couple trips, I am now a fan of the 6 ARC and will be getting my own. In comparison to the other gear, the magazines seemed cheap. They received the exact same package we got to test – the Alexander Arms 6.5 Grendel Mags. r/ longrange This makes two fairly recent releases from Hornady that convinced me to jump on early. It can penetrate deeply at any impact velocity. How would “6 metric wide ass'” sound ? I’ve ordered a 6mmARC barrel from Brownells to rebarrel my .244 Valkyrie. Snap it on, feed it 6 ARC ammo, and enjoy. Lantac USA Teasing 6mm ARC Pistol Following Rifle Announcement Lantac USA was one of the first companies to back Hornady’s new long-range AR-15 cartridge, the 6mm ARC with upcoming AR rifles and pistols. I assume that you think Hornady should have called the 6mm ARC “6mm Grendel” instead? Thanks for providing this detailed report. If you don’t understand the different reasons behind competing choices, you aren’t qualified to put forth an opinion…in my opinion haha. Too bad Hornady couldn’t call it what it is…. They turned out to be junk! That’s significant for me, but not for all. It could simply be that Alexander Arms squandered the small window of opportunity to have the Grendel adopted by keeping it proprietary at first. This rifle was way more portable than a larger AR-10. CHECK PRICE. Arm or Ally© teamed with three very strong barrel manufacturers to offer the finest AR barrels on the market. I use a 6.5 Grendel and have for about 8 months now. Now just patiently waiting on the advanced book. So, J.D. The DoD project discussed in your article has recently reached out to us as we make reliable magazines for the 6 mm ARC round. Best ballistics come from 100 gr – 108 gr bullets. However, I wasn’t sure it’d be good enough to justify switching to a new cartridge (something that I’m loathe to do for my personal supply-chain concerns). I do not believe magazines will be a deciding factor in the success or failure of this project. Read full review: Yamaha Recording Custom Using the info you posted, in JBM I got an estimated MV of 2,560 FPS with the majority of the numbers overlapping. I’d be trying that one in the arc right away. Lee Precision reloading press kits include everything you need to get started with the addition of your cartridge specific reloading dies and appropriate case length gauge (if reloading Rilfe cartridges).. I use C Product Grendel magazines and couldn’t be more pleased. After all 6mm is gaining ground in bolt action and many are using vs 6.5.. Originally developed for the Department of Defense for the AR-15 platform, 6mm ARC ammunition and reloading components promise the highest level of performance in the field or at the range. Of course, this comes at some recoil cost, but not much at all. I have had unreliable weapons in the past and did not enjoy a single one of them. I added a note in the article acknowledging Mr. Whitley with a link to the article you shared. However, the 6,.8 S{C 100 gr bullet will only have 801 ft/lbs of energy at 400 whereas the 6mm ARC will have 990 ft/lbs of energy. Maybe I’m wrong. High concentricity and uniform wall thickness mean consistent pressures, velocity, and accuracy. Well, a certain Department of Defense (DOD) customer, who has already received their Barrett Rec-7 Rifles chambered in 6mm ARC (which is the configuration we got to play with), wanted increased energy and long range performance over 5.56mm NATO without needing to jump up to a larger platform like the AR-10 and they wanted light enough recoil that their rifles could still be easily used in AR-style engagements with rapid shots. Their 6.8 mag is first rate, just a bit short for handloaders. are at the point of diminishing returns. Here’s a tip for you all: there’s no free lunch with calibers. Another point of interest is that I built a much lighter weight version with a generic quality barrel for my brother and it shoots very well for a walking hunter. Bullets available in factory loads from Hornady in both tipped and BTHP. Thank you. Huntsville is easily in the top three if not number one for most engineers and scientists per capita of any city in the US and perhaps the world. We’ve used Brownell’s bolts before without issue and we wouldn’t hesitate to do so again. Range work, class 2 game and military work the Arc makes a lot of sense. There’s a LOT to be said for more efficient case designs, bullets, and standardizing myriad wildcats. Bad move Hornady. Second, that special magazine still isn’t quite “right.” Third, the capacity is lower for 6 ARC as compared to 223 Rem in the same outside-dimensions for a magazine. Lots of friction resulted in difficulty pushing rounds out, weak springs and bad followers resulted in rounds not coming up and “nose diving into the magazine… Ended up switching to CPDs, and no more problems…! Why would a cartridge not perform well with a system of measurement? Following up — here are dimensional comparisons: 6mmAR (~2006) see 6mmAR.com COAL: 2.250 Case Length: 1.515 Case Head: .4449 Shoulder: 30deg, 6mm ARC (2020 copy) COAL: 2.26 Case Length: 1.49 Case Head: .441 Shoulder: 30deg. The velocity data he published started from the 100 yard mark. This 6 ARC and the 300 PRC. Classic Lee Loader. I hate it when fake comparisons are made. There are many barrels out there reasonably priced. Either 18″ bbls velocity sucks at around 2400 fps. No clue on barrel life. As we mention above, we’re not convinced that the magazines are figured out yet. Proof Research also has barrels that can be purchased. *The opinions expressed in this article do not necessarily reflect the views of Powder Valley, as this article was written in collaboration with an external research partner. Some say barrel length Compared to Grendel numbers for the same barrel length, I’m not sure there will be much difference. 6mm ARC Brass. The 6mm ARC is designed for the longer high BC bullets making use of a twist rate of 1:7.7″ give or take. I ran math between them and the 108 eld gives 150 yards more range potential than the 123 eld for similar impact velocity. Powder Valley is your destination for Hornady 6mm ARC cartridge reloading components, and ready to fire ammunition. First, Thank you for your Ranger service! There are a lot of different reasons for making that decision, but whatever your preference, the round must fit into the action, magazine box and chamber without resistance. longrange.reddit.com - The subreddit for long range precision shooting enthusiasts. I am wondering if a CMMG Mutant Mk47 style lower with constant curve AK pattern magazines and 308 Winchester bolt face would be a step up in a high round count military environment? + 1″ on the tube. So, if you are not shooting long range, your point is fair and I agree. Perhaps a few examples are in order. Here are the load details for each of the three factory offering from the developer of the cartridge, Hornady. Most of the shooting was conducted standing off of a tripod from 300-615 yards on steel targets. When it comes to precise long range shooting it definitely seems there is an advantage in that aspect that the 6mm ARC has over the 6.5 grendel. the AA trademark on the Grendel is the problem and hornady just pushed the shoulder back on the 6mm AR cartridge then added a letter to the name, not very original and when comparing it to the other 6.5 grendel based ar length 6mm cartridges like the 6 turbo, 6 fat rat, 6 grinch, and the 243 lbc, the 6mm ARC sounds a bit lackluster. Your email address will not be published. To me, a jump from 10 Mils to 15 Mils is VERY significant. Hornady .243 / 6mm 108 grain ELD-M (Extremely Low Drag Match) bullets, Berger .243 / 6mm 109 grain long range hybrid target bullets, Hornady .243 / 6mm 105 grain Hollow Point Boat Tail Match bullets, Hornady .243 / 6mm 103 grain ELD-X (Extremely Low Drag Hunting) bullets, Hornady Series III Two-Die 6mm ARC Die Set (.243). But I’m skeptical of this article. If you’ve already got an AR-15, you can convert it to a 6 ARC by replacing the barrel, changing the bolt, and using a dedicated magazine. You summed it up more simply than I did. Crap, now I’m confused – I’m from Arizona, not Alabama. At 400 yards, the wikipedia stats show 31.1 inches of drop for the land you reference at 400 yards. I think a better option would be to save your 6/45 barrel and just buy a 6mm ARC chambered barrel. I can appreciate your concern. 300 whisper -> 300 blackout, So, with some optimistic caution I walked in to our meeting about the new 6mm ARC much like I expect you’re reading on…. It appears that is what they are doing here by making an AR-15 compatible cartridge that is easiest explained as a 6mm version of the 6.5 Grendel with some modern case design. 6.5 Grendel shoots almost as flat at REALISTIC combat/engagement ranges and has more energy. Most experts are recommending at least an 18″ barrel with a rifle length gas tube. How far are your shots? 3) to be clear, many of the current 6.5G bolts and barrels are sold as Type II for a 0.136″ bolt face depth. A lot more detail is needed. It’s a difference, but to your point, maybe not enough? For example, at 1000 yards, the 6mm ARC needs 10 mils (33.75 Moa) of elevation. We had less than desirable results with the Alexander Arms 6.5 Grendel mags. Rio Grande offers competitive pricing, excellent service, ordering convenience and fast product delivery. 1/8 doesn’t sound even close to being capable of stabilizing a 108 that long. Great article! No testing of this system produced accuracy worse than 1 Minute of Angle (MOA) out to 1250 yards (that is, of course, if you ignore figuring out the wind…. The brass shell is perkier, with a complex timbre. Ahha! I want to reload 58 grain v-max for the 6mm ARC, to be used in an AR-15. If you are interested in reloading the 6mm ARC, the obvious place to start is with suitable cartridge cases. Great read and info. Known to have killed 3 hogs with one shot at 150 yds. If I compare same bullet weight, people get mad. Join our mailing list to receive the latest news and updates from our team, the 6mm Grendel is going from a wildcat to a commercial cartridge. The 12-18 inch ballistic numbers will be important. Appreciate the comparisons. Ryan — Excellent work! Note how the recoil is light enough with 6 mm ARC that I can use the Barret Rec-7 like a typical AR-15 for two rapid shots (controlled pair/double tap). Import & Export on our award-winning International Trade Site, Find quality Products, Trade Leads, Manufacturers, Suppliers, Buyers and Wholesalers. It was so good I purchased another. Read all about it on 6mmAR.com. Here’s my situation: I like long range shooting and I don’t have a 6.5 Grendel already so I’m going to be getting myself a 6mm ARC. Bullets from the above ammunition selection are also sold as individual components. Yes. Someone noted that it was identical to a wildcat and how could Mike Dillon do that. Me too – I hope we helped with your decision. It’s business as usual between lawyers and everyone needing to put their own name on the same cartridge, otherwise Whitley would have called the 6mm AR a 6mm Grendel from the beginning and Hornady would have just made ammo/brass/dies for it. Nice to see other Huntsvillians on here. It works for me with 100gr ELD-M. 1) this mainstream 6mm Grendel (sort of) is interesting and I like the higher BC on the bullets. A well thought-out and superbly built collection of snares in steel, brass and aluminium that will fire up just about any musical situation. Come on Magpul, give us a 6 ARC mag. The energy was enough to make the impact noticeable while the recoil was low enough to allow me to stay on target without much effort (even on the tripod). or 6.5 CM or 6.5 CRDMR for short, is a centerfire rifle cartridge developed for Creedmoor Sports and introduced by Hornady in 2007. To be honest, I’m kind of surprised Hornady did not even mention the 6mmAR which has been used for a LONG time successfully. Hornady 6mm ARC brass are produced in small lots to meet strict quality standards. The 6mm ARC is so close to the 6mm Grendel(wildcat) which is commonly referred to as the 6mm AR(Robert Whitley’s wildcat, the 30 degree not the 40 degree version) it just has a slight decrease in diameter at the start of the shoulder of 0.0008 and the shoulder is bumped back 0.0249 and the length trimmed 0.027. I am not sure that would be a good thing. designed the cartridge, modified brass, trademarked it as the .300 Whisper, and began offering rifles and ammo. No I want to build a 6arc. Or parent/cousins? CHECK PRICE, Faxon’s complete bolt carrier groups are a great value. This cartridge's accuracy is produced by a combination of its stout posture, being only 31 mm (1.22 in) long, and aggressive shoulder … In Alabama! There’s only so many combinations. Awesome! Solid review! Part of the reason may be their design/quality, however, another reason is that the new shoulder location on the 6 ARC from the 6.5 Grendel makes the Grendel mag less than a perfect fit. I can either assume that he is disparaging Alabama by insinuating we know something of incest and inbreeding thus not knowing if we are siblings or cousins; or I can assume that he recognizes the superiority of intellect possessed in Alabama over the average Arizonan thus implying we intellectually understand something he as an Arizonan cannot. The internal thickness of .223 and 5.56 brass is not a rigid specification once you get down past the case neck. But, since they each share the 220 Russian as their parent, maybe they’re siblings? Isn’t the 6mm ARC different case dimensions (length, shoulder, etc) and therefore NOT a 6mm Grendel? . They can call it what they want. Powder Valley is pleased to announce that the Hornady 6mm ARC (Advanced Rifle Cartridge) is being released for commercial sale. U.S. Military Adopts Hornady's New Cartridge: 6mm ARC Rifle U.S. Military Adopts Hornady's New Cartridge: 6mm ARC Tom Beckstrand - June 03, 2020. The 6.5G with the 100gr ELD-M is effective on hogs yet shoots flat enough to reach out over 200yds for coyotes. Robert Whitley came up with this cartridge a decade and a half ago. No one wants a 24 inch rifle. He came up with extensive load data. “Grendel” is not a trademark issue anymore. Personally, in contrast to the semantics of it. I’m curious about the optic being used. If past experience is any indication, we’ll see plenty of comments of upset folks no matter what we do. Still, my favorite comments are the cranky caliber comparison comments. It is a relatively fast and heavier bullet with a modern high ballistic coefficient bullet. The 6mm ARC by Hornady clearly hits harder. At 1000yds, the Valkyrie is flatter – only drops 335″ (9.3mrad), has 378ftlbs, and 1374fps… with the 90g match. Some examples include 6mm AR, 6mm PPC, and more. Shop the full Hornady line at the lowest possible prices today. Did the Geissele mount have any cant to it? 5,6mm Gw Pat 90: The 63-grain 5.56×45mm Gewehrpatrone 90 / 5,6mm GP 90 ("5.6-mm Rifle Cartridge 90") is the Swiss Army's standard 5.56mm Ball round. In fact, this new cartridge’s dimensions are similar to the 6mm AR by Robert Whitley. The published instrumental velocity shows 2,700 fps for a 108gr bullet. I know they were widely considered THE magazine for 6.8 SPC, and Barrett used them in the past. and Hornady 123 gr A-Max 6.5 Grendel (no BTHP by Hornady is available for comparison). This also means at 1000 yards, it is still traveling at 1,230 FPS and has roughly 370 ft.lb. Valkyrie will use up a barrel faster than 6.5G, where is the 6ARC expected to be relative to 6.5G barrel life? Most of the awesome helicopters, supported right here and chopper pilots trained here by Alabamans. These are not their higher-end line but they are great for weekend-hobbyist AR-15 builders looking for parts that will be reliable. 1.419 “ long, aluminum tipped. We all look forward to the cartridge you design and bring to market. Here are some bolts that will work with the 6mm Advanced Rifle Cartridge: Brownells makes a quality bolt carrier group (not just the bolt…the entire assembly) at a good value. Yes, 3 hogs. Which is the reason why I couldn’t commit to 6.8SPC (other than the LWRC), 6.5 Grendel, or 7.62×39 in the AR platform. The easiest example for me here is the 6.5 Creedmoor – an incredibly popular cartridge and the clear winner in terms of adoption of other similar calibers. (If you didn’t know, these two cartridges are effectively rounding errors of each other), So, just because a new cartridge isn’t vastly different from other offerings doesn’t mean that it won’t take off and be a popular cartridge. We had no idea the others working on it were having magazine issues. If you’re looking for AR-15 reloading supplies, Hornady 6mm ARC Unprimed Brass Cases should be high on the list of must-have components. 6mm ARC Brass. Been a Grendel fan for years, but I’ll take lighter and faster with less recoil just about every time. For banging steel out to 1,200, it is all I need and it is more enjoyable to shoot out of a semi-auto gas-gun than even the already comparatively mild 6.5 Creedmoor.
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