First thing I was instructed to do was a TPS Autoset. Pin W: Connect to the purple wire (Crank +) on the 7-pin connector, Pin G: Connect to the green wire (Crank -) on the 7-pin connector, Crank Sensor Ignition Reference Angle: 57.5 Degrees, Crank Sensor Sensor Type: Digital Falling, Crank Sensor Ignition Reference Angle: 50 Degrees*. If you download the Holley EFI Wiring Manual you will find that you can implement a magnetic crank trigger (section 8.6) or hall effect crank trigger (section 8.8). However, if you already have an MSD box that is working and if you are handy at making wiring connections then it may be worth the money you would spend on the HyperSpark box to wire in your existing MSD box.The only thing I'd point out is that MSD boxes don't last forever and it would be a bummer to do all of that wiring on an older MSD box only to have it croak a few hundred miles after you did all of that work.Another thing I'd check is if your MSD box has the tach sweep feature and confirm that can be disabled. Second I can tell you the great frustration that folks have had trying to make this work using factory ignitions.Instead, I'd recommend that you go ahead and expand your budget to include the Holley Dual-Sync Distributor. If you look at them you will see they have the same 2-wire connector that will mate to the green-purple harness on the Sniper EFI System.It is my experience that you can buy the MSD Pro-Billet distributor for your application and add the required rotor rephasing kit and still be about $80 or so under what you would pay for the Holley DSD and adapter harness. You are receiving the crank signal and it is displaying RPM. At this writing only one application has been announced (for the Chevrolet Small/Big Block Engine, of course.) Remember that the Terminator also has a points output just like the Sniper. engine ran previously then you can furhter narrow it to an ignition timing issue. If you are not getting spark then you have a problem in the ignition system, most likely with something not being powered or grounded correctly. If a capacitive discharge ignition box is used, then the points output generated by the electronically-controlled distributor will trigger the box to produce the spark ad the ECU-determined timing. It seems pretty easy since it all connects together with plugs. Hi Chris , I have ignorantly purchased a Sniper for my project not realising that I have no distributor available to run it . On my truck I have a small 4-position mini fuse panel that is battery powered through a 30-amp relay. Don't settle for a junkyard ECU with a cumbersome tuning interface when you can have complete control of your engine, self-learning fuel strategies and the proven, race-winning technology of Holley EFI at a budget-friendly price! not sure how that happens unless you've blown a hole in the top of a piston. Used GM small Cap from DUI and have msd box. I absolutely would not even consider doing Sniper-controlled ignition timing with a an MSD Pro-Billet Distributor unless the EFI system first worked flawlessly without it. In that case you'd have to replace the box anyway. The Tech Tips and discussions are also great! Use the purple wire with the included extension wire) and connect that not to the distributor tach out but to the tach out on the CD box. ECU can be triggered by its Hall Effect sensor. Way late to the original post, yet wondering: If using Sniper EFI, HyperSpark distributor, and Coil Module Driver into a relay, are you also using a relay for all those 12v clean switch sources? If you have a tachometer that is already connected to that tach out signal, you need to disconnect it there at the distributor and then get your tach signal from the brown wire on the 10-pin hareness.If you happen to have a CD box then don't use the yellow wire. I put the Mallory back in and it runs great. Unfortunately my build isn't as cookie cutter as most. There's also a line that connects both of these sensor, back to the same A14 ground. Ken says he reloaded the setup a couple of times and the problem went away and everything runs great now. And, at that point, I'd still recommend the Dual-Sync distributor instead. Terminator X EFI. wire from the coil driver is going to the (-) of an ACCEL DFI 75607 coil.The white wire on the 10-pin goes to the white wire of the coil driver, black from Bolt-on carburetor style EFI for your classic car or truck. Doing Sniper EFI timing control with a magnetic reluctor pickup (as are found in the GM HEI) is filled with potential pitfalls, even when using the recommended MSD Pro-Billet distributor. When cranking it takes a Price Point: $, Advanced throttle body injection systems capable of transmission control and more. As for all of the stuff below about rotating the engine to 50 degrees before TDC and this and that to get the rotor phasing correct--HyperSpark Distributor installers get a pass. The dual-sync 10-pin connector will simply plug into the 10-pin ignition harness that is available on the universal (non-LS Specific) Terminator EFI systems. Then I decided to go all the way and bought the holley dual sync dist. Beyond just accuracy in both of these requirements you must also ensure adequate signal strength and prevent the creation of RFI. Because of that, it can be used to control timing on a GM Small Cap HEI or Ford TFI distributor. it seems that the handheld wasn't just displaying '0', it was truly giving him zero timing advance at WOT (and, consequently, zero power!) The attached picture showes the wiring as it is on my car now.http://1.cdn.lib.americanmuscle.com/files/guide-14204-13.jpgHope you can guide me. That must be disabled if used with the Sniper EFI System or else it floods the engine with fuel before you even engage the starter. Then moving to the MSD distributor later to implement timing control.For the CRT Performance distributor looking at the connections on this distributor I have a tach out and a power to the incap coil. If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. Why can't you LSx guys just wire your crank & cam sensors exactly as shown in the Holley EFI Wiring Manual? Chris If all of this is true confirm that your HyperSpark is getting power. I highly recommend ordering your EFI system though him as opposed to other companies because it shows that he truly cares about the customer and knows what he's doing with these systems. I wish there was a pattern or specific environment as to when the unit resets, but sometimes it happens immediately and then there’s times where I might drive an hour before I get the dreaded stall. I encourage you to carefully consider the costs. If you want to let the Sniper control your ignition you might consider re-purposing that 7AL-3 on another project and going with the HyperSpark ignition box. It should not be surprising that wiring the Terminator EFI System to control ignition timing using the Points Output signat is very similar to doing so on the Sniper. Yes, the MSD distributor is one of the two options for doing timing control on a Sniper EFI System but not all MSD distributors are included in that. With the advance locked out, the rotor phasing kit allows you to manually set the position of the rotor to the correct location. If the above suggestions do not eliminiate the RF interference problem, another user I know went back to the original non-adjustable rotor. Terminator Ignition Wiring with Holley HyperSpark Distributor. And, are there any other changes needed to the distributor? Crank signal and all gauges on LCD display function and read well. If the 24x reluctor is still turning with the crankshaft, and the sensor air gap is within specification, the sensor should transmit a signal. Fast shipping, great tech support. :-). :-), Thank you for that description.. However, I just spent HOURS helping a guy who was in this situation with his small block Chrysler 360 and although he's got spark the engine won't hit a lick. On stock engines the Terminator X handheld can be used to Yes, that's even a few dollars more than the MSD route. I bought the sniper efi and installed it with my Mallory Unilite dist. Absolutely! '92 Ford Mustang GT: 385" SBF, Dart SHP 8.2 block, TFS T/W 11R 205 heads, 232°-244° duration/.623" lift/114° LSA camshaft, 12:1 C/R, TFS R-Series FTI ported intake, BBK 80mm T/B, Dominator MPFI & DIS, 36-1 crank trigger/1x cam sync, 200A 3G alternator, Optima Red battery, A/C, 100HP … The sky is the limit! Set cruise timing at say 43 and when your actually cruising you'll see more like 33 on controller. The plan is to take advantage of the available timing control using the existing ignition system, if possible. Or is there a benefit to having the module remain that I don't understand? On the LS2 diagrams, the cam/crank grounds go to A18 ‘Sensor Ground’ shared by the rest of the engine sensors. Along with this you will need a good coil (see the post above) and the Sniper-to-Dual-Sync Adapter. I am installing the Sniper on my Chevy 5.7 liter engine in my boat now that the sniper is USCG approved. Don’t buy your EFI anywhere else. In the next few weeks will be buying a Holley Terminator EFI (550-406) and a Holley Dual-Sync distributor (565-106). The challenge is that if you run into any issues you have to really be on your troubleshooting A-Game. But I recognize I generally respond within one business day. Also included is Holley EFI’s industry-leading, easy to use software suite that allows full laptop access for advanced users. However, I will leave you with the advice an old friend gave me when I was building my first stock-class circle-track race car. Holley Terminator X EFI Kit for an LS2 or LS3 Engine with a 58X Crank Reluctor and 4X Cam with EV6 Injectors. Some people (including Holley) claim that 24x/1x sensors will work on +5V provided by the LS3 crank/cam wiring, but I suspect this might be my issue. Im looking a the Sniper system and it says you cannot use a small cap Gm Hei. At lease one has. You can certainly choose to continue to control the ignition timing using the MSD 7AL-3. As a result of your comment I've updated the post above to show exactly how this would work. So that can be easily simulated. I feel like I am missing something here. It's not clear to me how they are connected, or what the function is. of the throttle body unit.Any ideas? 92 Mustang LX 347 11:1 TEA 205cc Twisted Wedge, FTI cam, Ported Victor 5.0, Holley Terminator X … One of the huge benefits of the HyperSpark system is the plug-and-play simplicity of installing an ignition system that already has all of the connectors designed to be mated together. The HyperSpark operates with the Sniper EFI System identically to the Dual-Sync distributor (mentioned below) but costs 33% less and requires no adapter harness. Between that and the picture you should have everything you need to be successful. I have recently purchased a super sniper 4500 and I have a question about, how can I use my MSD 7AL-3 and have the sniper parameters control all aspects of my timing. If you download the Holley EFI Wiring Manual you will find that you can implement a magnetic crank trigger (section 8.6) or hall effect crank trigger (section 8.8). Rather than use some sort of rotor phasing kit, you just set the rotor phasing when you lock out the vacuum advance. I've built up a 4.1L Chevy 250 with 8lbs boost and alcohol kicking in at 3lbs boost. Terminator X and Terminator X Max is two powertrain management systems from Holley that offer plug and play control for most LS engines. The MSD route in this case is also tried and proven--to be not worth the effort by most who make the considerable effort. I need help. The Holley instruction only shows two wires from the distrubitor and there are no tags on them, only colors that dosn't match my distributor. If you can manage to set the engine on top dead center (the "0" mark on the harmonic balancer) on the compression stroke then the hard work is done. But, I have known some really bright guys who have failed to make this happen even when using the Holley-endorsed method of an MSD Pro-Billet Distributor and rotor phasing kit (which is why I don't endorse that.) Below is an example of the wiring for an MSD 6AL. If you look very closely at the connector there should be a letter on each pin. After reading your article I am purchasing the dual sync distributor. Patreon link: https://www.patreon.com/HoneybadgerOBSPayPal:[email protected] Thank you to 918 Motorsports!! Ran amazing. Will be purchasing your level 2 plan to get help with a tune after I get this set up running. This should work well for you. Red Error! The distributor produces a points output that sinks the current from the coil, initiating the spark at the timing determined by the ECU. Err Cam/Crank input error detected. This method requires that you get a GM Large Cap HEI distributor with the 4-pin module in it. I just found this thread and looked at the link to Holley EFI forums , sounds simple enough but you don’t sound convinced. Yes, I know that many of you come into this relationship already having an suitable MSD distributor. This is a timing issue. to give it some throttle, the stumbles and backfires persist.I have followed and verified the installation and setup instructions for the I see no need for the Dual Sync's cam Check this post over on the Holley EFI Forums. A bit odd. Use your best judgement and do what seems right for you. That is a bit outside the scope of this blog so I'd recommend you contact the vendor or MSD to get some assistance on resolving the problem. Terminator Ignition Wiring Without CD Box (GM Distributor Shown). Terminator X and Terminator X Max. A complete mystery. Will be using an Edelbrock Performer dual-plane intake (2151). I’m all but certain that I have some serious RFI interference because the unit constantly resets (handheld shows red numbers,AFR says heating, etc). You're not actually using the module, you are just picking up the signals you need at these points. Pin B: Leave Disconnected. Provided that you don't have a CD box (like an MSD 6) there is only one wire you need to connect at this point between the Sniper EFI System and the Distributor. Can I use the small cap Gm HEI if I pull the timing control module out of the distributor and just use the mag pickup already in it. I have purchased a hyperspark distributor since my original post and did not have a single problem until a month later. Quick fix: file structure error, Holley terminator x - YouTube The manifold pressure cruising in a vehicle with a big engine with a mild camshaft (very low) is much different from that on a smaller engine with an aggressive camshaft (much higher.) Full product line and accessories at excellent pricing. But the reality is much more complex. Sorry for the long post but I have tried other tech support and cannot get through due to high call volume. That is to use a GM Large Cap HEI distributor. While I am not that familiar with Chrysler ignitions, I am not aware of a way to easily adjust the rotor so that it is going to be indexed with the spark tower at the time of the spark. I noted the drop in price for the Dual Sync, but So if you were able to find an ignition system for your Ford 4.0 that would operate independently it would work fine with the Sniper EFI System. Ok, so much going on here. I have learned to never say never to ignition setups. By that I mean originally I wired for a standard points system and since moved to a mag distributor and want the sniper to control timing. You are right--the HyperSpark is the hot new ticket for ECU-controlled ignition in the Holley EFI world. of the Dual Sync distributor. Where there is a will there is a way.Some ways are much more painful than others, however.The reason that Holley officially supports the MSD Pro-Billet Distributor as one of the approved methods of implementing ECU-controlled ignition timing is because MSD offers a phaseable rotor that works with most of these distributors. Do you have any thoughts. Holley dont make a dual sync distributor for Buick that i can find. I have seen Holley put the wrong clear cap in the box. The white points output from the Terminator (found at position "H" of the 10-pin ignition connector) goes to the white wire, ground the black wire, and run switched 12 volts to the pink wire. I am running a terminator stealth, and was running a pertronix dizzy, on a 351 cleveland that was originally points, had nothing but problems with dizz so bought a dual sync, no have no way to hook up coil, I do not want a msd box as I really dont have anywhere to put it, and trying to keep the classic clean look under the hood. Robust, feature-rich multi-port EFI systems offer easy plug-and-play late-model V8 engine swaps. If you put a priority on flawless engine operation, I'd go the dual-sync distributor route. That is why it cannot control ignition timing using the the GM Small Cap HEI or Ford TFI ignition. I've got a sniper unit in my car and currently need a good distributor, as my old frankenstein is showing it's age again. I came here for advice if I should keep my MSD box or just fork out the money and get the whole hyperspark system. Like any of the Sniper ignition timing control options it requires either a coil driver module or an ignition box but the next big plus in favor of the HyperSpark distributor is the availability of the HyperSpark Ignition Box and HyperSpark Coil. I have been on infinite hold trying to get the information and gave up. Ignition question. With a battery charger set to trickle on the battery I tried to test fire the “new” engine. Instead, implement a 1-dimensional table (using the Sniper software) that retards the spark timing to some degree at which the air/fuel charge is already clear of the combustion chamber. LED PC Text Gauge Text Description Red Error Err If you see an error, contact Holley Tech Service. The purpose of this article is to drill down just a little into the igntion wiring for the Holley Terminator and Holley Sniper EFI Systems, comparing these two it a bit more detail than I've seen done elsewhere. Thanks. not appear to be wet.I have 3 pink wires (distributor adapter, coil driver and the pink from the 7-pin) Is that the case? I currently have a CRT Performance large cap HEI billet distributor that works great. And remember that there are even more options. As mentioned above, even those who have the MSD distributor and the available rotor phasing kit have enough problems that I simply no longer recommend it for most.Let me be careful not to imply that ECU-controlled ignition timing with your existing ignition is not possible. Can I use the existing stock ECU to control the ignition via coil packs and use the sniper just to control the fuel side- and in doing this would I still retain the OBD-II functionality- or would all the inputs being robbed from the stock ECU and sent to the sniper mess up the stock ECU making it throw codes all the time?Jeremy. that the video they had posted earlier. Thank you, Chris! If you can detect the thin blue wire going to ground at the point the fuel pump should be coming on, if the thin pink is hot, and if you can jump across from the heavy red wire to the heave blue wire and the fuel pump comes on, the relay is probably failed. I expect that you're going to find both increased performance and economy (which are both generally in short supply in RV's! Where there is a will (plus brilliant troubleshooting techniques and tons of patience) there is generally a way.That said, it's unlikely that anyone is going to convince me that with the Sniper there is a better way to go than the dual-sync distributor. Price Point: $$, Robust, feature-rich multi-port EFI systems offer easy plug-and-play late-model V8 engine swaps. Have you replaced the relay? I've tested and isolated everything to this relay, and I just cannot get the fuel pump to run when using the pre-installed relay....almost as though it is wired incorrectly....yet I can jump from my battery-power source directly to that fuel line wire and get it to run. The wires APPEAR to be correctly wired into the relay (power to 30, blue fuel to 87, etc. Holley made the decision up-front to simplify this decision by including the coil driver module in every Sniper EFI Kit. May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ. go forward with that assumption.You've not yet seen this new video from Holley. coil driver is directly attached to the battery (-).The main + and - are going directly to the battery posts.The initial setup screen on the display checks out OK. I think I see the problem, Jesper. Page 14 of the Sniper EFI Instruction Manual shows that you use the included purple ignition adapter wire harness connected to the tach output on the CD box to connect to the purple/green pair coming off the 7-pin harness. The Sniper differs from the Terminator in that it has no EST/SPOUT signal--only a points output. Of course, at this point you bump up against the fact that we don't recommend using an MSD Pro-Billet distributor to implement timing control on the Sniper, though it is listed as an option. Holley does not make a tach drive dual-sync distributor as far as I can tell. That being the case, the ECU has to sort of "guess" at what point the engine loses enough vacuum to be considered WOT (and thereby lose that additional advance.) Could you post a pic of both plugs showing color and location on the plugs. Why settle for a factory ECU with a cumbersome aftermarket tuning interface when you can get complete control of your engine, self-learning fuel strategies and the proven, race … I'm even more interested in the HyperSpark. There are two--one for distributors that rotate Clockwise (Marked CW) and one for engines that rotate counter-clockwise (marked CCW.) The ECU should not care that there are no injectors firing but not having somethings like the throttle position sensor in place may create issues. Allowing you full tuning access to the Terminator X and Terminator X MAX ECU. Made for 24X Crank and 1X Cam the Terminator X kit controls Multec 2 Injectors with four programmable inputs and outputs, including boost and nitrous control. Demystifying Holley Terminator and Sniper Ignition Hookup. Since the ECU cannot sink the high current blasts that would come from the coil on every spark an interface is required.. Good news! I have read a few places that it is possible to use a Ford TFI distributor by modifying the shutter wheel to have 8 equally sized shutters and adjusting the pickup location to match the input in crank trigger offset (i.e. If you’re converting your classic to run an LS engine, the Terminator X EFI Kit (550-918) from Holley removes guesswork and adds functionality! We offer a harness (PN ESP TERM2HS) that reduces the number of manual terminations to only one--LESS required by the Sniper! #1 You stated that the Holley adapter harness 558-304 interfaces between the GM small cap HEI and the Terminator ignition plug on the main harness. Truck ran fine before the swap. Thx. Timing is synced but system keeps making me second guess the sync. Second--backfiring through the crankcase? In your case, pay special attention to the tips for confirming the wiring and syncronization that Tom provides at the 13:00 mark.Hopefully this video provides you with some new ideas. I may the only person in the world that followed Holley's suggestion to remove extra wires from 2 harnesses provided but now I find that I cannot go back. As I said, this is a bit of a hack so that's part of the adventure. Glad to help! … Some factory OEM tachometers may additionally need a "tach signal amplifier" to function properly. When you finally yank something and the car won't start, put it back on. I was wondering if it would be difficult to wire all that together. Find a lower price anywhere and we'll beat it by 5%! Backfires are not caused by the fueling system. Hi was looking at distributor diagrams on gm small cap distributor if module removed can this be used on a sniper efi? Ignition for the Output Dwell and Tuning > System > Ignition Setup for the other three.). The EST/SPOUT signal is the same as is found in many factory ECUs. It is absolutely the route I'd suggest. This may work with other factory distributors that use an EST/SPOUT signal, but Holley only provides direct-fit adapter harnesses for these two at the time of this writing. If I try Regarding "Sniper Ignition Control Using GM Large Cap HEI Distributor", is there any reason I can't just remove the module and just hookup to the specified C/W/G wires? Hello Chris! Backfire through the tailpipe, through the intake, not cool. On my initial try, it In the absence of the MSD box, that's what the coil driver module does. https://forums.holley.com/showthread...-when-cranking, termx_000101-001206-0004-firststart.dl.zip, http://documents.holley.com/techlibr...10555rev17.pdf, http://forums.holley.com/showthread....ents-Read-This, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OChfI5i2S3Y, http://www.newark.com/pdfs/techartic...haWire/USC.pdf, If this is your first visit, be sure to That means that any ignition you can implement with the Sniper can also be implemented with the Termaintor. Great question, actually, and one I get quite a bit. But when the Sniper was added and didn't have a way to do ignition control with either the GM Small-Cap HEI or Ford TFI ignitions, they obviously felt compelled to offer other options.So yes, you can go the MSD Pro Billet route. For those like yourself who might install the Sniper EFI System on an engine with an existing ECU-controlled ignition you are either going to have to figure a way to keep the stock ignition working (quite possibly doable, though I don't have the experience to confirm this) or else you'll have to retrograde to a stand-alone ignition.
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